VISUAL STUDIES + FINE ART MEETING.
Thursday 20th of January, 12 pm,
VISUAL STUDIES 1st year STUDIOS.
After last week meeting it would probably be relevant to meet again and discuss the outcomes of the meeting. What we thought about it, how did we feel about it? This will definately help us organise our ideas and put together a coherent voice over the facts.
It should be an occasion to look over what happened on Thursday's meeting and discuss what is exactly going to be our line of thought and action. What would we like to see happen and how.
Please pass on to anyone who could be of concern.
Elena Italia
BA VS 1
BA VISUAL STUDIES
Monday, 17 January 2011
Thursday, 13 January 2011
MORE ALUMNI STATEMENTS
Hester Draycott
BA VS graduate 2010
BA VS graduate 2010
Hello All,
That's terrible, it will be such a shame if the course is deleted, the course was the only reason I decided to go to NUCA. When I was applying I also looked at the Fine Art course but it was like every other Fine Art course that is offered around the country. Visual Studies, however seemed to have more freedom to explore, experiment and progress; with it's interdisciplinary approach I was able to uncover my own practice as a performance artists which I know would not have been possible on a FA course.
In our academic year, visual studies produced the most amount of independently organised exhibitions, performances and events in NUCA history. This meant that the course supported and assisted us in working as artists even before we had left the course. These skills gained were crucial for me, now I am living abroad and working as a freelance artist and university assistant. It was because of the design of the course that I produced so many performances and events which led to me being invited to international festivals, and I am organising a performance collective in Chile. Without the skills I developed whilst studying on Visual Studies there is no way I would be in the position I am in today.
Anyone can be an artists but if you don't know how to get your art seen and communicate your ideas with others it is little more than a personal hobby. Visual Studies artists know how to create art and not just Fine Arts, but test the boundaries between disciplines and create new and innovative work. We successfully communicate ides and themes and most importantly are proactive in getting the work out there, which is where the importance of art comes in to play as a crucial tool in our culture.
In todays economic climate it is even more important that students are not only prepared to face the world of work after University but who before they even leave are already working so that the transition is seamless. This is what happened to me, I was so prepared that I just continued what I was already doing. This was thanks to the way that the Visual Studies course was designed and of course the amazing tutors who believe in the course.
Hope my opinion helps,
Take care,
Hester
Cristina Nisbet
VS student
I just want to express the importance of BA (Hons) Visual Studies for other courses.
I've come from Foundation Degree Arts & Well-Being at Nowrich City College which is a fairly new course that was set up with the aim of students progressing onto the third year of NUCA's BA (Hons) Visual Studies or BA (Hons) Professional Studies (UEA/Gt. Yarmouth). As the only creative option for progression from this course, I think it is essential that BA (Hons) Visual Studies is kept as a seperate course and is not incorporated into BA (Hons) Fine Art.
Unlike BA (Hons) Visual Studies, the structure and marking criteria of BA (Hons) Fine Art does not allow students to work within the community/schools/hospitals etc. if they wish to do so. Due to the differnce in structure, Fine Art also does not allow the exploration of Art Therapy and other topics related to art and well-being in the studio work and research report.
If BA (Hons) Visual Studies is incorporated into Fine Art, I am afraid that it will result in there being no creaive top up for FdA Arts & Well-Being. Peter Martin (BA Visual Studies Tutor) worked alongside Brenda Unwin (FdA Arts & Well-Being Tutor) and Jo Pretty (Head of Creative Arts at Norwich CIty College) to ensure that the focus of art & well-being could be maintained and expanded on throughout the third year of BA (Hons) Visual Studies. BA (Hons) Fine Art has not had this communication with City College.
I've come from Foundation Degree Arts & Well-Being at Nowrich City College which is a fairly new course that was set up with the aim of students progressing onto the third year of NUCA's BA (Hons) Visual Studies or BA (Hons) Professional Studies (UEA/Gt. Yarmouth). As the only creative option for progression from this course, I think it is essential that BA (Hons) Visual Studies is kept as a seperate course and is not incorporated into BA (Hons) Fine Art.
Unlike BA (Hons) Visual Studies, the structure and marking criteria of BA (Hons) Fine Art does not allow students to work within the community/schools/hospitals etc. if they wish to do so. Due to the differnce in structure, Fine Art also does not allow the exploration of Art Therapy and other topics related to art and well-being in the studio work and research report.
If BA (Hons) Visual Studies is incorporated into Fine Art, I am afraid that it will result in there being no creaive top up for FdA Arts & Well-Being. Peter Martin (BA Visual Studies Tutor) worked alongside Brenda Unwin (FdA Arts & Well-Being Tutor) and Jo Pretty (Head of Creative Arts at Norwich CIty College) to ensure that the focus of art & well-being could be maintained and expanded on throughout the third year of BA (Hons) Visual Studies. BA (Hons) Fine Art has not had this communication with City College.
Wednesday, 12 January 2011
VISUAL STUDIES ALUMNI
Jodie Sibley
Visual Studies graduate 2008
now support worker for
The Benjamin Foundation.
Hello,
my name is Jodie Sibley and i graduated from Visual Studies in 2008. My friends who i went to school with and i, are always talking about university and are forever exchanging stories about out time spent there.
When i graduated from the Visual Studies course, i decided i wanted to stay in Norwich and not move back home with my parents. I have friends who also went to the Norwich School Of Art and Design (now known as NUCA) who graduated also in Visual Studies. When we meet up, we always end up talking about NUCA but we don't have the same conversations as i do with my home friends. When i talk to other graduates of the Visual Studies course, we talk about the projects we were involved in, exhibitions that we put on, tutors and their support.
We talk about how creative and fun Visual Studies was and how we had the freedom but support to create. (I befriended old people in homes for one of my projects, but the next i designed and made corsets!)
I now work for The Benjamin Foundation in a homeless hostel for young people. I have worked for the organization for nearly two years and everything i remember from Visual Studies, i try to link and incorporate into my job role as a support worker.I truly believe if i had not enrolled onto the visual studies course at the end of my foundation year i would not be the person i am today. When i went for my interview as a support worker they told me that i got the job as i was different. They told me I was interesting, i was good at communicating, i was colourful. This is how i would explain Visual Studies and more, its not fine art so don't put it in the same category. Its in a league of its own and should stay there.
Visual Studies is so much more than a course, its a way of communicating which is the most important skill i think everyone should have. I would be deeply saddened if Visual studies were lost and others never got a chance to experience it and gain from it like i have.
Jodie Sibley
Heather Elizabeth Gibb
Visual Studies Graduate 2009
now freelance photographer and illustrator ,performance art tutor.
Visual Studies is an important course to Norwich, to students and to the UK and around the world. It is as far as i know the only course of it's sort. Unlike any other course the art school runs, it gives a platform into a wider range of career opportunities. In Visual Studies, you can have much more freedom than in any other course. You are initially inducted into all of the different workshops that the school provide. This allows you to develop and hone a wider range of skills rather than one specific area of study. Personally it has enabled me to do everything from forwarding my career in retail, to becoming a performance art tutor, along side a freelance photographer and illustrator. It has also taught me the strength of character i needed to be able to work at a very young age in a high school as a cover supervisor. Without Visual Studies i would not know how to think outside the box. As an Art school, i implore you not to cut off the one course that completely embraces all forms of creativity. It is diverse and i feel that if lost that some of the creative identity of the school of art in Norwich will be lost also. Visual Studies enabled me to know that i am ready for whatever life throws at me however crazy, it also allows me to keep an open mind into my future. Think to your potential students future. Visual Studies is the modern day answer to true art. If we lose it i fear we may be turning back to our traditional routes, pigeon holing art into sculpture, painting and printing. If we keep it, the question "What is Art?" may start to challenge the minds of our fellow human beings for a long time yet to come, as Visual Studies students continue to challenge the boundaries and diversify.
I hope my argument has been well heard and well received,
Kind Regards,
Heather Elizabeth Gibb
Abbie Raynsford
Visual Studies Graduate 2008
now organises workshops for Buddhafield Festival, Devon
www.buddhafield.com
Dear All,
I graduated from the Visual Studies Course in 2008. It was the best, and most life changing 3 years of my life. It was an exceptionally efficient and well run course, lead by exceptionally skilled, caring and talented tutors, Chris Locke, Kimberley Foster & Peter Martin. Anita Hallet also was incredidly patient, and supportive to all the students.
I have been a practising Buddhist since for 15 years, and in all my meetings with practising individuals, I had not been as consistently impressed, nor humbled by the communication I had with Kimberly and Peter. I was never once criticized. This really is quite phenomenal, because we talked a lot! I cannot say that for any other individuals I've ever met. Chris Locke is also probably the most encouraging, creative person I've met, and although I would be thrown by his slightly old fashioned exterior, I always felt he was the younger, more questioning of us, and it was me that was caught in my ways, not him!
I would add that the first year was extremely well lead by Andy Campbell, and all the students were very disappointed when he was not reinstated as First Year tutor. It was a loss for both the Art School and Visual Studies.
I cannot say how important I think this course is. In my opinion it is THE course that makes NUCA great, and unique. The standards with which it upheld, gave rise to my friend saying 'having a baby was easier than doing my Visual Studies course!'. The commitment, and hard work was always rewarded by self discovery, increased self confidence, a belief that I could take on the world just a bit more, and above all to ask why, and keep pushing for greater understanding. I gained a very high first. I have never worked harder, nor felt as proud.
I would never have been able to do the work that I do now. I organise workshops for a charity that run a festival in Devon, along with retreats, a cafe and land. Had I not gained the experience of running a fundraising art auction that raised £5,000 for our final show, nor helped collaborate with the students desiginng the final show, nor been encouraged to be student rep and a PAL, I know that I would not have been able to take on this demanding work. I certainly would not have had the confidence, nor technical skills to take on such work.
I still talk passionately and strongly about my degree experience. It fundamentally asked how I see the world, and what creativity really is. It asked who our audience is, where the work lives and crucially how best to communicate that. Working alongside other artistic practitioners, I realize that they just weren't asked in their creative practice to really consider their audience, or how to communicate effectively to them.
I feel incredibly privileged to have been part of the course, and it saddens me deeply to think that other students will not be given the same opportunities that I had.
Integrating the course will be such loss for NUCA. Such a diversity of spirit and creativity will not be encouraged. Visual Studies in my opinion makes NUCA special.
Best wishes,
Abie Raynsford
Visual Studies graduate 2008
now support worker for
The Benjamin Foundation.
Hello,
my name is Jodie Sibley and i graduated from Visual Studies in 2008. My friends who i went to school with and i, are always talking about university and are forever exchanging stories about out time spent there.
When i graduated from the Visual Studies course, i decided i wanted to stay in Norwich and not move back home with my parents. I have friends who also went to the Norwich School Of Art and Design (now known as NUCA) who graduated also in Visual Studies. When we meet up, we always end up talking about NUCA but we don't have the same conversations as i do with my home friends. When i talk to other graduates of the Visual Studies course, we talk about the projects we were involved in, exhibitions that we put on, tutors and their support.
We talk about how creative and fun Visual Studies was and how we had the freedom but support to create. (I befriended old people in homes for one of my projects, but the next i designed and made corsets!)
I now work for The Benjamin Foundation in a homeless hostel for young people. I have worked for the organization for nearly two years and everything i remember from Visual Studies, i try to link and incorporate into my job role as a support worker.I truly believe if i had not enrolled onto the visual studies course at the end of my foundation year i would not be the person i am today. When i went for my interview as a support worker they told me that i got the job as i was different. They told me I was interesting, i was good at communicating, i was colourful. This is how i would explain Visual Studies and more, its not fine art so don't put it in the same category. Its in a league of its own and should stay there.
Visual Studies is so much more than a course, its a way of communicating which is the most important skill i think everyone should have. I would be deeply saddened if Visual studies were lost and others never got a chance to experience it and gain from it like i have.
Jodie Sibley
Heather Elizabeth Gibb
Visual Studies Graduate 2009
now freelance photographer and illustrator ,performance art tutor.
Visual Studies is an important course to Norwich, to students and to the UK and around the world. It is as far as i know the only course of it's sort. Unlike any other course the art school runs, it gives a platform into a wider range of career opportunities. In Visual Studies, you can have much more freedom than in any other course. You are initially inducted into all of the different workshops that the school provide. This allows you to develop and hone a wider range of skills rather than one specific area of study. Personally it has enabled me to do everything from forwarding my career in retail, to becoming a performance art tutor, along side a freelance photographer and illustrator. It has also taught me the strength of character i needed to be able to work at a very young age in a high school as a cover supervisor. Without Visual Studies i would not know how to think outside the box. As an Art school, i implore you not to cut off the one course that completely embraces all forms of creativity. It is diverse and i feel that if lost that some of the creative identity of the school of art in Norwich will be lost also. Visual Studies enabled me to know that i am ready for whatever life throws at me however crazy, it also allows me to keep an open mind into my future. Think to your potential students future. Visual Studies is the modern day answer to true art. If we lose it i fear we may be turning back to our traditional routes, pigeon holing art into sculpture, painting and printing. If we keep it, the question "What is Art?" may start to challenge the minds of our fellow human beings for a long time yet to come, as Visual Studies students continue to challenge the boundaries and diversify.
I hope my argument has been well heard and well received,
Kind Regards,
Heather Elizabeth Gibb
Abbie Raynsford
Visual Studies Graduate 2008
now organises workshops for Buddhafield Festival, Devon
www.buddhafield.com
Dear All,
I graduated from the Visual Studies Course in 2008. It was the best, and most life changing 3 years of my life. It was an exceptionally efficient and well run course, lead by exceptionally skilled, caring and talented tutors, Chris Locke, Kimberley Foster & Peter Martin. Anita Hallet also was incredidly patient, and supportive to all the students.
I have been a practising Buddhist since for 15 years, and in all my meetings with practising individuals, I had not been as consistently impressed, nor humbled by the communication I had with Kimberly and Peter. I was never once criticized. This really is quite phenomenal, because we talked a lot! I cannot say that for any other individuals I've ever met. Chris Locke is also probably the most encouraging, creative person I've met, and although I would be thrown by his slightly old fashioned exterior, I always felt he was the younger, more questioning of us, and it was me that was caught in my ways, not him!
I would add that the first year was extremely well lead by Andy Campbell, and all the students were very disappointed when he was not reinstated as First Year tutor. It was a loss for both the Art School and Visual Studies.
I cannot say how important I think this course is. In my opinion it is THE course that makes NUCA great, and unique. The standards with which it upheld, gave rise to my friend saying 'having a baby was easier than doing my Visual Studies course!'. The commitment, and hard work was always rewarded by self discovery, increased self confidence, a belief that I could take on the world just a bit more, and above all to ask why, and keep pushing for greater understanding. I gained a very high first. I have never worked harder, nor felt as proud.
I would never have been able to do the work that I do now. I organise workshops for a charity that run a festival in Devon, along with retreats, a cafe and land. Had I not gained the experience of running a fundraising art auction that raised £5,000 for our final show, nor helped collaborate with the students desiginng the final show, nor been encouraged to be student rep and a PAL, I know that I would not have been able to take on this demanding work. I certainly would not have had the confidence, nor technical skills to take on such work.
I still talk passionately and strongly about my degree experience. It fundamentally asked how I see the world, and what creativity really is. It asked who our audience is, where the work lives and crucially how best to communicate that. Working alongside other artistic practitioners, I realize that they just weren't asked in their creative practice to really consider their audience, or how to communicate effectively to them.
I feel incredibly privileged to have been part of the course, and it saddens me deeply to think that other students will not be given the same opportunities that I had.
Integrating the course will be such loss for NUCA. Such a diversity of spirit and creativity will not be encouraged. Visual Studies in my opinion makes NUCA special.
Best wishes,
Abie Raynsford
Tuesday, 11 January 2011
CALL FOR ALUMNI
Looking for people who have graduated from Visual Studies which would be interested in sharing their experience of it. Please get in contact.
MEETING MINUTES
FOR ANYONE WHO MIGHT HAVE MISSED TODAY'S VS MEETING
Following today's meeting, this is a summary of the decision taken, the questions raised, the concerns which have been expressed.The meeting took place in the 3rd years studios. Visual Studies tutors refused the invitation in order to not affect our decisions, and compromise our voice.Student Union President Polly Wilson was present to answer questions and bring support.
A very warm feeling towards the course was expressed by everyone present. The positive points which the course presents have been highlighted. The passion involved in the course, both coming from the tutors and the students, the uniqueness of the course, its important group dynamics have been brought up by several people in the discussions. The excellence of it, its excellent results and staff have been variously praised. It was pointed out that Visual Studies is the course with the highest intake of jobs after graduation.Its recognition across the UK was similarly pointed out. It was very strongly expressed that even if we have been ensured that these issues aren't affecting us directly they will actually do. In the case of 3rd years it was made clear that their only attachment to the course was important enough for them to feel concerned.
Raising interest in a Visual Studies degree appears as an important standpoint. It was expressed that often the course is misunderstood and isn't publicised enough. This seems like the most direct way of increasing numbers and rescuing the course, rather than merging it with fine art.
Highlighting the difference from a Fine Art course came out as a strong point in the conversations. In fact this appears as a central element when attempting to preserve the course from its integration in the BA FA. Fine Art students which were presents agreed and presented their opinion. As fine artists there are a number of students which choose the BA as a mean of being more specific with their practice, of specialising in a subject, and resent sometimes the broadness of the course. From this point of view the integration of Visual Studies, which stands on the opposite approach, becomes a concern for those students. The integration of Visual Studies in Fine Art appears like it could '' dilute fine art and concentrate visual studies'', and by doing so damage both courses.
The reasons for such a decision where questionned as much as its implications. It is of strong concern for everyone that with the merging of Visual Studies with Fine Art, the budget for such a course, the tutoring time allocated to it and the spaces might remain unchanged whilst the numbers of student will increase. Similar concerns have been raised concerning the continuation and ending of the BA VS degree for those which are at the present moment enrolled in the course. It seems unlikely that students will receive the same amount of tutoring hours, teaching and space when they will, in two years time, be reduced to the mere amount of 17 people. The reduction of artistic practices represented within the University in favor of vocational degrees appeared of concern for both Visual Studies and Fine Art students. These will be the last course representing that part of the University.
Concerns related to the future Visual Studies graduates degree have been similarly raised. It appears worrying to encounter the job market with a degree related to a course which isn't existing anymore. The validity of such degree isn't questioned but the understanding of such a qualification by an employer seems more difficult when, looking on the University website, he might find the apelation ''Visual Studies'' under ''Fine Art''. In fact the practices which the Visual Studies course has been supporting are very distinct from a Fine Art degree and that could wrongly represent what a student is actually qualified for.
It was taken as a decision to ask Student Union President Polly Wilson to partake on Thursday's meetings with Head of University Professor John Last. It was similarly agreed that students would be designed to talk during the meeting to address those questions and concerns, in order for the opinions expressed to come across more clearly. It was decided that even if the division in three groups could be seen as undermining the strength of our message it could be used as a way of expressing our ideas with more order and care. It was decided to ask if some students from 1, 2nd and 3rd year could assist to the others meetings so that we could compare the different elements which come out of each meeting.
Figures have been asked to Student Union President Polly Wilson concerning the numbers of students recruited on the course in the last 5 years, the exact percentage of intakes of jobs after graduation with a BA VS, and the budget of such a course, in comparision to other courses which the Art School offers. These will be given out on Thursday during the meeting.These will help presenting a strong argument in favor of the viability of the course.
The importance of such a decision being taken in the current political and economic moment was discussed. Some felt that it was central to the success of our action to be considered in the larger scheme of things. We aren't an isolate case but part of a broader phenomenon which is touching numerous Art Institutions and reaching these student unions support could makes us appear stronger and on a more united standpoint.Others thought it was more central to raise concerns only directly linked to the course.
Following today's meeting, this is a summary of the decision taken, the questions raised, the concerns which have been expressed.The meeting took place in the 3rd years studios. Visual Studies tutors refused the invitation in order to not affect our decisions, and compromise our voice.Student Union President Polly Wilson was present to answer questions and bring support.
A very warm feeling towards the course was expressed by everyone present. The positive points which the course presents have been highlighted. The passion involved in the course, both coming from the tutors and the students, the uniqueness of the course, its important group dynamics have been brought up by several people in the discussions. The excellence of it, its excellent results and staff have been variously praised. It was pointed out that Visual Studies is the course with the highest intake of jobs after graduation.Its recognition across the UK was similarly pointed out. It was very strongly expressed that even if we have been ensured that these issues aren't affecting us directly they will actually do. In the case of 3rd years it was made clear that their only attachment to the course was important enough for them to feel concerned.
Raising interest in a Visual Studies degree appears as an important standpoint. It was expressed that often the course is misunderstood and isn't publicised enough. This seems like the most direct way of increasing numbers and rescuing the course, rather than merging it with fine art.
Highlighting the difference from a Fine Art course came out as a strong point in the conversations. In fact this appears as a central element when attempting to preserve the course from its integration in the BA FA. Fine Art students which were presents agreed and presented their opinion. As fine artists there are a number of students which choose the BA as a mean of being more specific with their practice, of specialising in a subject, and resent sometimes the broadness of the course. From this point of view the integration of Visual Studies, which stands on the opposite approach, becomes a concern for those students. The integration of Visual Studies in Fine Art appears like it could '' dilute fine art and concentrate visual studies'', and by doing so damage both courses.
The reasons for such a decision where questionned as much as its implications. It is of strong concern for everyone that with the merging of Visual Studies with Fine Art, the budget for such a course, the tutoring time allocated to it and the spaces might remain unchanged whilst the numbers of student will increase. Similar concerns have been raised concerning the continuation and ending of the BA VS degree for those which are at the present moment enrolled in the course. It seems unlikely that students will receive the same amount of tutoring hours, teaching and space when they will, in two years time, be reduced to the mere amount of 17 people. The reduction of artistic practices represented within the University in favor of vocational degrees appeared of concern for both Visual Studies and Fine Art students. These will be the last course representing that part of the University.
Concerns related to the future Visual Studies graduates degree have been similarly raised. It appears worrying to encounter the job market with a degree related to a course which isn't existing anymore. The validity of such degree isn't questioned but the understanding of such a qualification by an employer seems more difficult when, looking on the University website, he might find the apelation ''Visual Studies'' under ''Fine Art''. In fact the practices which the Visual Studies course has been supporting are very distinct from a Fine Art degree and that could wrongly represent what a student is actually qualified for.
It was taken as a decision to ask Student Union President Polly Wilson to partake on Thursday's meetings with Head of University Professor John Last. It was similarly agreed that students would be designed to talk during the meeting to address those questions and concerns, in order for the opinions expressed to come across more clearly. It was decided that even if the division in three groups could be seen as undermining the strength of our message it could be used as a way of expressing our ideas with more order and care. It was decided to ask if some students from 1, 2nd and 3rd year could assist to the others meetings so that we could compare the different elements which come out of each meeting.
Figures have been asked to Student Union President Polly Wilson concerning the numbers of students recruited on the course in the last 5 years, the exact percentage of intakes of jobs after graduation with a BA VS, and the budget of such a course, in comparision to other courses which the Art School offers. These will be given out on Thursday during the meeting.These will help presenting a strong argument in favor of the viability of the course.
The importance of such a decision being taken in the current political and economic moment was discussed. Some felt that it was central to the success of our action to be considered in the larger scheme of things. We aren't an isolate case but part of a broader phenomenon which is touching numerous Art Institutions and reaching these student unions support could makes us appear stronger and on a more united standpoint.Others thought it was more central to raise concerns only directly linked to the course.
IMPORTANT
IMPORTANT
VISUAL STUDIES MEETING. Year 1,2and 3
12.00 pm in the SU BAR
11th/02/2011
(tomorrow)
In preparation to the meeting with head of University professor John Last ( Thursday the 13th/02/2011) which will happen in 3 separate groups, it seems appropriate for us students to meet and discuss our opinions and reflections on the situation.
Proposing a strong point against the incorporation of the course into the BA FA needs to be done as a whole group, not in the division that we have been presented with. Our concerns and opinions will stand stronger if we can all put togheter a commoun voice over the facts. Questions about the reasons and the figures which support this decisions being taken need to be asked with consistency.
For all of this reasons I propose a meeting for all VISUAL STUDIES and FINE ART students that feel mobilised and attempt to put togheter a commoun , more solid, voice over the facts.VISUAL STUDIES MEETING. Year 1,2and 3
12.00 pm in the SU BAR
11th/02/2011
(tomorrow)
In preparation to the meeting with head of University professor John Last ( Thursday the 13th/02/2011) which will happen in 3 separate groups, it seems appropriate for us students to meet and discuss our opinions and reflections on the situation.
Proposing a strong point against the incorporation of the course into the BA FA needs to be done as a whole group, not in the division that we have been presented with. Our concerns and opinions will stand stronger if we can all put togheter a commoun voice over the facts. Questions about the reasons and the figures which support this decisions being taken need to be asked with consistency.
Elena Italia
BA VS1
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